Think of the children! No, wait, terrorism!

Terrorism invoked in ISP snooping proposal

The 'war' on terror truly is the perfect war. No clearly defined enemy, so everyone is suspect, even Americans. No clearly defined borders, so you can fight it anywhere, even in America.

And the best thing of all, is you can keep it all secret because enemies could be anywhere, and simply talking about it can provide them support and comfort.

I gotta give Gonzales and by proxy whoever told him to say it props for at least being honest about it. The "think of the children" shtick is just so tired by now.

However, it's not because they're honest about it that Gonzales said it, it's because they're so blatant. They don'teven pretend. It's like Rove and Cheney were out drinking and hunting one night and one of them, probably Rove, drunkenly boasted he could get people to go alone with anything just by being totaly blatant about it. Just in their face no way to deny it just justify it with national security or some shit. Cheney would be the old skool sneaky bitch type, all secrets and closed doors, so of course he'd be skeptical.

Honestly, this is the only way I can imagine that they're getting away with the shit they are. Fine, here, yes we're restricting your freedoms and wiping our ass with the Bill of Rights, but it'zs to protect you and if you don't believe us just ask us and we'll tell you. Oh yeah, I'm not really from Texazs, but I act like it, and even though I'm a privliged north eastern elitest I own a "gentelmans" ranch and talk stupid, so I'm just like you.

And they fell for it.

And now it's the norm. They don't even pretend, they don't play the game, nothing. Just in your face fick you it's for your own good and if you disagree you're lsoing the war for the allies.

This is what happens when you take civics out of school, people! Shit like this happens and no one knows they're supposed to care!

When will the 'war' on terro be over? Bush himself said never. Just openly admited it, all the while ursurping special 'war' time authority and cutting Congress's balls off, of which they freely provided as long as Bush didn't point out their spending habits.

So this is the norm, people. This is America at 'war' from now and forever, according to Bush. Persoanly, I refuse to live in a country that's at a constant state of 'war' that requires the government that I put in power to force private industry to collect massive wide ranging information on consumers for government data mining projects. No, I do not trust the government to not abuse that authority, I don't care who's in power.

It often seems like some people don't understand the ramifications of the Republicans ramming all this shit through and giving up all this authority to Bush carries over to when a Democrat holds the office or majority of Congress. Everything the GOP is doing now we can do later, shit, you're setting the legal precedent right now, you twats.

I guarantee the Democrats abuse this fucking power when they take office or the majority, they're God damn politicians, that what politicians do, Christ, how stupid are you people? When was the last time the govenrment gave back any expanded authority? When was the last time the government made itself smaller? Sure as fuck wasn't when the Republicans took over, damn.

The deial has to be insane, doesn't it? The constant denial thatthey've turned their backs on so many core ideals they espoused so self righteously all those years? Republicans of 30 years ago never would have dreamed of jumping into the Terri Schiavo shit like they did. It would have been the Democrats and the Republicans would have been all aghast at that level of federal intervention into private family lives.

And man, the spending! Can any conservative claim that spending under Bush has not outstripped Clinton in every way, in every stage, in ever sector of the federal government? This doesn't even include the unfunded appropriations bills they've been charging the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq to. They aren't even officialy on the fucking books!

At least they're sticking to some of their historical roots, though. You can take the party out of the sourthern but you can't take the southern strategy out of the party. Got all kinds of voting restrictions coming on, of course not overtly racialy based anymore, but then the new color of racism is green. It's actualy gonna hurt them some in the hick south. And please, I was born in Missouri and raised in northern Michigan, I am the hick south.

The party of Lincoln, heh. Not even the party of Reagan anymore. Could have been the part of Newt, but the dumb bastard wound up being serious about shrinking government and cutting spending. What a putz. Got rid of his ass right off. Now he thinks he's some elder statesmen, like anyone in the GOP really wants to cut spending. Sure, other peoples spending, not mine.

And that takes us to my last point, morality based politics will rip the GOP apart, if not in this election cycle then the next. Can't compromise on morals, people. The wing that made you the majority will be the wing that brings you down when they abandone you because you can't deliver what they want. Not that you don't want to, you just can't. It's unconstitutional. So when you can't stack the courts with total nutbags and you start cutting their funding, which you will to pay for more tax cuts, they'll stay home in droves. The greatest thing about it is how righteous they'll feel doing it. Punish that bad old GOP for abandoning God to the Constitution, for shame.

Splitting the country along moral lines, I think, will in the long run of history, if we last that long, be Bush's true legacy, not Iraq. The only point in which the US was this split along partisan lines was before the Civil War. And it's plain to any honest shcolar and even an idiot like me that it was done intnentionaly. Evangelicals don't support the GOP because of thrift spending habits and smaller government, they support them because of abortion and gay marraige, period.

And that's the problem, because you're limited to those two issues to bind the party together. You think the evangelicals fund the GOP? Hell no, the corporations do, and what they want is increasingly counter to what evnagelicals want. Now who do you suppose the GOP is going to go with when push coms to shove? WHo's got the most butter for their bread is who, and that ain't the evangelicals. Without 'em, the GOP doesn't have the votes to hold their majority.

And if the evangelicals don't bail, conservationsit minded conservatives will, and already are starting to. Conservation, which runs mostly counter to industry, is also picking up steam with the evangelicals, further splitting the party. Only the most hard core will stick with the GOP over only abortion and gay marriage, and the GOP can never deliver on either of those, anyway. All they can do is continue to use it as a boogeyman to fire up what's left of their base.

The Democrats kept their majority intact for what, fifty years, give or take? The GOP will lose theirs in less than 20, 25 on the outside.

I wanted to end off with some bitting snipe but I can't really think of one that makes sense. Mind the typos, my typing not so well is.

If you're going to build a wall

What would it be like?

How tall? How long? How deep? How many people would be manning it? Topped with razor wire? Electrified, maybe? Guard dogs? Armed military patrols? Armed guard towers?

Minus any of these, what's to keep people from just propping up a ladder and climbing over it?

Would you support raising taxes to pay for it? Or should the poor and elderly pay for this too? Maybe we could finaly end Medicaid since Bush fucked it up so much, that should cover it, no?

Just think of all that money we'll be saving from not educating and caring for and healing all those dirty immigrants? Oh, wait, we'll need to round up the one's already here.

So now how do you propose to do that? Round up anywhere from 5 to 15 million people, house them, transport them. Ooh, bet we could use some trains, maybe pack them into some box cars, eh? Pass them through that razor wired gate past them guard dogs and military personel. Think maybe we could get some German Shepards, just for the nostalgia effect?

These actions and ideas in and of themselves are not an issue for me, the fact that the US is the one contemplating implementing them is.

Is America as welcoming light of freedom to the worlds oppressed and hungry done? Is that just quaint nostalgia in todays reality? How do we celebrate our diversity and wall off our borders at the same time?

I hear too many cons on here espouse the tired line of everyone else is doing it, other countries seal their borders, other countries limit their immigration. Would these other countries be 'old Europe'? You know, France, maybe? Are we to act like other countries now, but only in this instance, not like in law or anything that effects us directly? Do we only emulate other countries when it's convenient or self serving?

And the slippert slope arguement os overused by all sides. On one hand, lets say for example, legalizing gay marraiges is a slippery slop that will lead to legalizing sex with babies and animals. But on the other hand, for further example, restricting our liberties and freedoms won't lead to a slippery slope of further restriction.

The left uses this arguement in reverse, too, so I'm not laying exclusive claim on it by the right. But since I'm the one posting, I get to choose the example, heh.

Once you start it's hard to stop, on anything. It's all a slippery slope. But I'd rather slide towards inclusion and diversity than exclusion and atrophy. Who do we limit next? Hell, we're at war with radical Islam, doesn't it make sense to limit access to Arabs?

Oh, right, we already are.

Protesting in America is an old tradition, happening quite often in the heady days of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Industry and corporate interests effectively shut it down by the early 2th, though, with only sporadic outbursts in the last 70 or so years, mostly ineffective and short lived.

But hey, we could al go back to those glory days of slave labor sweat shops where over see'ers beat their workres with whips and locked them into rat trap fire hazard buildings, forcing them to pay for their meals and clothing and shitting themselves rather then going to the bathroom.

Because that's what it was like before all the ethnic protests related to labor in America as aforementioned above.

Republicans need to press their leaders over this issue. Many of you have admited here over and over that you take away the jobs you take away the labor. Heavy enforcement on business's that hire illegals is the only realistic course on decreasing illegal immigration, and it will never happen, because the GOP is very business friendly.

And it's not jsut the GOP, Democrats have local interests as well, but nationaly, it's the GOP that won't slap business like it needs to be. So when will you hold your leaders responsible?

Hey, how about this election? Why not all you all just stay home in protest? Or maybe vote for their other side?

Oh, right, right, I forget, no matter how bad your side is the other side will always, always be worse. So, you keep voting for your side, and you keep getting nothing done about it, and you wonder why.

That's the inherent limitation of morality based politics, you can never, never compromise on your coe issues, no matter how bad they fuck up everything else.

Pissed off at the deficit? Gay marraige! Booga Booga!

Upset over highways and railroads that go nowhere? Terrorists! Booga Booga!

Ticked off over the craptacular Medicaid drug bill? Abortion! Booga Booga!

I've been vocal and consistent on my ability to support certain Republican candidates. I could vote for McCain with no remorse, or Powell, or possibly Warner, and maybe even that Mormon dude, whatisname. Or was that Warner?

Regardless, too many on both sides, and more on the right than the left, simply can't get past their false moral convictions or hatred and disgust of the other side to ever contemplate comrpomising.

And that's why the GOP majority will last a third as long as the last Democrat reign did. In fact, the reason the Democrats lost isn't so much that the Republicans won, it's the Democrats that stopped compromising on issues like gay marraige and abortion. They froze out the moderates, same as the GOP is doing now.

Only the Dems took 40 years or more to do it, the GOP is doing it in less than 20, tops.

But hey, no sweat, hold that line, stay that course, by God don't compromise on my account. Far be it from me to keep you from your destiny.

Oh, right, back to the poll, how would you build a wall?

This is what I get for 'lucid' before I post, I tend to ramble. So read or answer or not, this was more for me than you anyway :D